The other day on my own blogsite I wrote an article about new legislation (HR 698). In this legislation it calls for removing/modifying a code which regards the newborns of illegals who cross over our borders & have their babies U.S. Citizens. Carte Blanc if you will. Access to our medical, social, and financial welfare dollars. Things you and I who have lived here all our lives or immigrated legally pay for. So to do my part I had written my Senator an email asking him to support this important piece of legislation. Here is what he said:
From: Opinion@coleman.senate.gov
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:53:41 -0500
Subject: Re: www_email
To: firewolfsblog@gmail.comDear Mr. Nick:
Thank you for taking the time to contact me concerning the children of
illegal aliens who are born in the United States.The right to U.S. citizenship of any person born in the United States
is part of our Constitution as provided under the 14th amendment which
reads, “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and
subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States
and of the state wherein they reside.”While I do not condone the actions of the parents who gained entry
into the United States illegally, I do not believe we should punish
their children or overturn the U.S. Constitution in order to do so.Still, I appreciate and share your desire to have an effective
immigration policy and look forward to the debate on immigration
reform in the 109th Congress.Thank you once again for contacting me. I value your advice. Please do
not hesitate to contact me again in the future if I can be of any
further assistance to you.Sincerely,
Norm Coleman
United States Senate
You know, if I were a betting man (and I have been known to indulge that temptation from time to time), I would conclude by my Senator’s remarks that he’s not in support of sweeping anti-illegal immigration reforms as I am. I was stunned considering his outcry against the shennanigans going on over at the UN. Demanding that Kofi and his crew fess up to allegations of improprieties, and other abuses sanctioned by UN peacekeepers and the Oil for Food program. I guess being a public servant means you should chew and speak out of both sides of your mouth at once?
To say that border security and illegal immigration are important issues to me would be an understatement. And I guess what’s really a hard pill to swallow is elected officials who swear to defend this nation at all costs not giving it their all to implement their will.
To me, that’s rank hypocracy.
{ 34 comments }
Aaron 03.21.05 at 11:38 pm
The oath taken by US Senators is as follows:
“I, A__ B__, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.”
(5 USC 3331)
Aaron 03.22.05 at 12:38 am
The oath taken by US Senators is as follows:
“I, A__ B__, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.”
(5 USC 3331)
vanderleun 03.22.05 at 1:14 am
Psssst, “carte blanche.”
Jerald Sheets 03.22.05 at 2:04 am
Ummm… Aaron, I don’t see your beef.
While we may not agree with what’s going on, your buddy there is doing what your quote above says. He’s both supporting the constitution and defending it to you. While we may not agree with the subject matter on immigration grounds, remember that this is a country of immigrants. I think the law in and of itself is a decent one, but it is currently being abused. Amendment and due process is the only way to go on this. Start a PAC, find people of like-mindedness, and get busy. If enough of us support the cause, I’ll be there one future november pulling the lever “for”.
Bashing the guy for doing what he’s paid to do (and took an oath to do) isn’t going to help your cause *or* alleviate your frustration.
vanderleun 03.22.05 at 2:14 am
Psssst, “carte blanche.”
Jerald Sheets 03.22.05 at 3:04 am
Ummm… Aaron, I don’t see your beef.
While we may not agree with what’s going on, your buddy there is doing what your quote above says. He’s both supporting the constitution and defending it to you. While we may not agree with the subject matter on immigration grounds, remember that this is a country of immigrants. I think the law in and of itself is a decent one, but it is currently being abused. Amendment and due process is the only way to go on this. Start a PAC, find people of like-mindedness, and get busy. If enough of us support the cause, I’ll be there one future november pulling the lever “for”.
Bashing the guy for doing what he’s paid to do (and took an oath to do) isn’t going to help your cause *or* alleviate your frustration.
Aaron Brazell 03.22.05 at 9:16 am
It’s a David Nick entry. Not an Aaron entry. /methinks I need to do something more for entries to denote them as “Guest Entries”…
Aaron Brazell 03.22.05 at 10:16 am
It’s a David Nick entry. Not an Aaron entry. /methinks I need to do something more for entries to denote them as “Guest Entries”…
David Nick 03.22.05 at 12:41 pm
Yup Jerald, I wrote the piece LOL As for Senator Coleman defending the constitution, what he’s defending is a loop hole. One that’s being circumvented by illegals for the purpose of benefiting illegally. How can one rationally support that? While I am not saying that we should chuck the constitution in favor of some stringent pro-citizen socialism reform, I am saying that we can address this problem that enables illegals into purpetrating their crimes. Here is another letter I received from my other Senator. Mark Dayton (A crazy Democrat).
Obviously he felt more strongly about this issue than the republican I voted for. As I distinctly remember from the events AFTER 9/11. Both members of congress met at the capitol steps to sing patriotic songs and the promis that they would do all they could to combat terrorism in this country. Our pourous borders have become part of that problem. And that’s why we need to shut it down.
David Nick 03.22.05 at 1:41 pm
Yup Jerald, I wrote the piece LOL As for Senator Coleman defending the constitution, what he’s defending is a loop hole. One that’s being circumvented by illegals for the purpose of benefiting illegally. How can one rationally support that? While I am not saying that we should chuck the constitution in favor of some stringent pro-citizen socialism reform, I am saying that we can address this problem that enables illegals into purpetrating their crimes. Here is another letter I received from my other Senator. Mark Dayton (A crazy Democrat).
Obviously he felt more strongly about this issue than the republican I voted for. As I distinctly remember from the events AFTER 9/11. Both members of congress met at the capitol steps to sing patriotic songs and the promis that they would do all they could to combat terrorism in this country. Our pourous borders have become part of that problem. And that’s why we need to shut it down.
Maureen 03.24.05 at 4:32 pm
Ok - let’s get some ethnic blood in here on this one… I’m an american citizen born of a panamanian mother. The circumstances are somewhat different (my father is american and they were married when i was born)but i know a LOT of illegal aliens. You have to think about something - in most cases, these people are fleeing abject poverty and starvation, rampant military oppression, guerilla warfare - have you ever been to mexico? they live in huts with no electricity and this is the 21st century! they don’t have money to get here legally - a huge number die being smuggled in… all they are looking for is a better way of life - the american dream. The terrorists of 9/11 were not illegal immigrants. And they do not get these things Carte Blanche - most of the illegals that I know have 2 or 3 jobs and work themselves to the bone. They get poor treatment and grossly substandard wages. They are not sitting at home eating tacos with their feet up milking the system. If you want to see pple milking the system then look at the americans who live off of welfare who are perfectly capable of working but choose not to and have handfuls of kids also living off of welfare. Let’s go even further with this… how do you fill all of your service industry jobs when the common american is well-educated and looking for white-collar jobs. Are you going to clean toilets? Hispanics are hard working enterprising people. I know a woman from central america who was beaten and raped by the guerillas. She somehow managed to get herself smuggled into america in an oil drum. She was pregnant at the time and did not know it. She was so malnourished and dehydrated during the transport that the baby died inside of her and she almost died from the poisoned blood. She had no money, no family, no place to live. She literally had NOTHING. She worked to become an american citizen and now owns her own restaurant/bar is quite successful. You might as well tear down the statue of liberty - or at least erase “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” It’s a concept this country was built on and the reason why we are the greatest country in the world. Consider yourself lucky to have been born here otherwise you may have found yourself to be one of those immigrants you so strenously lambast. But that’s my opinion.
Maureen
Den of Darkness » On being hispanic 03.24.05 at 4:53 pm
[...] ad written my Senator an email asking him to support this important piece of legislation. Click here to see the whole entry with comments… [...]
David Nick 03.24.05 at 5:04 pm
Hi Maureen, I first want to thank you for responding. Secondly, before I get to my counter point I want to interject a little humor in here by saying “What’s wrong with sitting at home eating tacos with your feet up”? I love mexican food (tho the history of the taco can be debated later). :)
Now, Here is what my problem has been with illegals, illegal immigration, as it pertains to our border security, and the betterment of the latino race:
1) You made this point: in most cases, these people are fleeing abject poverty and starvation, rampant military oppression, guerilla warfare - have you ever been to mexico? they live in huts with no electricity and this is the 21st century!
I have seen how they live in Mexico, and I know it’s not any way I would want to live but ask yourself if that is my fault or the fault of my fellow countrymen and women? The answer is resoundingly NO. No because why haven’t the mexican citizens revolted for better living conditions than what they have? Better wages, better housing? Instead, they would rather violate our laws and security and if we oppose it we are called racists or vigilantes? (Not saying that’s what you are calling us).
2)You then said this: The terrorists of 9/11 were not illegal immigrants. And they do not get these things Carte Blanche - most of the illegals that I know have 2 or 3 jobs and work themselves to the bone. They get poor treatment and grossly substandard wages.
A Latino did not hijack a plane and fly it into a building, you are 100% correct, but what you fail to see is that the free flow of illegals across our borders has not solely been Mexican. They have also been Syrians, Pakistani, Iraqi, Lebonese, etc. That plus the fact that illegals are crossing over is alarming and a National Security epidemic. As for illegals not sucking up welfare here in the US is a blatant lie. The pregnant ones cross over specifically to have their babies here and their babies are given welfare, housing assistance, and many other benefits, it is why Arizona citizens passed Proposition 200 to ban illegals from gaining free access to welfare.
3) You Said: If you want to see pple milking the system then look at the americans who live off of welfare who are perfectly capable of working but choose not to and have handfuls of kids also living off of welfare. Let’s go even further with this… how do you fill all of your service industry jobs when the common american is well-educated and looking for white-collar jobs. Are you going to clean toilets? Hispanics are hard working enterprising people.
For an American to live off the welfare system is sad, but it is our right to do so because we live here legally. Not everyone on welfare bilks it for all it’s worth and simply needs it to crutch a particular hardship in life, that I see nothing wrong with at all. Those who rely upon welfare for their primary source of income without considering the chance to work for something better need to seek some therapy. And before welfare critics jump down my throat for that, I have at some point in my life relied upon welfare in dire circumstances. It was meant as a last resort to total poverty and destitution. Also, part 2 of your statement. Please don’t presume to know whether or not I object to cleaning toilets for money or taking a service job because you somehow assume to believe it’s beneath me. I clean toilets every other day at my house because some in my family are no longer capable of doing it themselves because of physical disabilities. I have worked in the food service industry for several years. I love to cook professionally and have no problems with it. I understand that I might be a minority in that arena. But please don’t stereotype me.
Last, I know what our immigration motto about “give me your tired, ….” It didn’t say give me your illegal immigrants who’ll objectly violate U.S. policy and laws, not too mention being security threats to continue their self serving nature. I am not anti-latino, I love the culture and mexico has had a long history/relationship with our country, but if you want to immigrate to this country do so legally, if you are fed up with your government, REVOLT! It’s obvious that the motto of Mexico is not “Change within” but “If you cannot change your government, hike the fence and move to America illegally”. Life in Mexico isn’t easy, between fighting drug lords, to corrupt government officials who are continuing to get richer off the backs of it’s citizens should be ruled an outlaw country and warrant a serious look at overthrowing that government. However, the people who live there should want it, and with the massive influx of illegals we are seeing here on a daily basis I just don’t see that happening.
It is not my fault the mexican government is crap. It is also not my responsibility to be burdened with an increase of unjust taxation for the support of welfare programs that go to illegals. That also includes the outrageous medical costs that I have to undertake because illegals are not refused treatment in our country.
Illegal immigration costs everyone, and that’s wrong. I do not have millions of dollars laying around to pay for this anymore than the illegal immigrant who took my job.
Maureen 03.24.05 at 5:32 pm
Ok - let’s get some ethnic blood in here on this one… I’m an american citizen born of a panamanian mother. The circumstances are somewhat different (my father is american and they were married when i was born)but i know a LOT of illegal aliens. You have to think about something - in most cases, these people are fleeing abject poverty and starvation, rampant military oppression, guerilla warfare - have you ever been to mexico? they live in huts with no electricity and this is the 21st century! they don’t have money to get here legally - a huge number die being smuggled in… all they are looking for is a better way of life - the american dream. The terrorists of 9/11 were not illegal immigrants. And they do not get these things Carte Blanche - most of the illegals that I know have 2 or 3 jobs and work themselves to the bone. They get poor treatment and grossly substandard wages. They are not sitting at home eating tacos with their feet up milking the system. If you want to see pple milking the system then look at the americans who live off of welfare who are perfectly capable of working but choose not to and have handfuls of kids also living off of welfare. Let’s go even further with this… how do you fill all of your service industry jobs when the common american is well-educated and looking for white-collar jobs. Are you going to clean toilets? Hispanics are hard working enterprising people. I know a woman from central america who was beaten and raped by the guerillas. She somehow managed to get herself smuggled into america in an oil drum. She was pregnant at the time and did not know it. She was so malnourished and dehydrated during the transport that the baby died inside of her and she almost died from the poisoned blood. She had no money, no family, no place to live. She literally had NOTHING. She worked to become an american citizen and now owns her own restaurant/bar is quite successful. You might as well tear down the statue of liberty - or at least erase “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” It’s a concept this country was built on and the reason why we are the greatest country in the world. Consider yourself lucky to have been born here otherwise you may have found yourself to be one of those immigrants you so strenously lambast. But that’s my opinion.
Maureen
Aaron 03.24.05 at 5:32 pm
Y’know, I’m ashamed someone who shares my name would have the bad taste to let a guy like you guest on his blog, David.
‘I have seen how they live in Mexico, and I know it’s not any way I would want to live but ask yourself if that is my fault or the fault of my fellow countrymen and women? The answer is resoundingly NO. No because why haven’t the mexican citizens revolted for better living conditions than what they have?’
What are you, joking? You talk about a popular revolution like it’s something that everybody just decides to do all at once, and, hey, look! We just overthrew the government! Did you ever happen to notice that just about every popular revolution in history that hasn’t had the support of a third-party nation with a lot of guns has been put down as brutally and as bloodily as possible given the technology of the time? The only reason the American revolution succeeded, for a particularly handy example, was because we had the French — yes, gasp, I know, surrender monkeys and all that bullshit — because we had the French on our side.
‘No because why haven’t the mexican citizens revolted for better living conditions than what they have? Better wages, better housing?’ No. They’d have a lot of blood and pain and would end up with less than what they have now — unless, again, they have the backing of a powerful nation.
Speaking of that, if you’re thinking of suggesting America as that powerful nation backing the popular rebellion in Mexico, don’t. There are a few reasons why I say this, not least of which being Bush and Fox (Vincente, president of Mexico) appear to be on good terms.
The main reason I say ‘don’t suggest America’, though, is what happened to the Iraqi Kurds. Before the first Gulf War, we made real nice with the Kurds in northern Iraq, sayin’ “Oh, yeah, we know you want a piece of land to call your own, and that works out pretty good for us, so how ’bout when we’re on our way in, you guys start up, too? Make life even harder for Hussein! Don’t worry, we’ll be with you all the way!’
So of course when the Kurds did what we’d asked them to and rose up in the north we left them completely to their own devices, as a direct consequence of which they were slaughtered wholesale and driven all the way into Turkey, which had enough of a Kurdish problem and didn’t want any more, so some hundreds of thousands of Kurds wound up in refugee camps along the border between Iraq and Turkey.
So if you were thinking to suggest America as a backer for a popular Mexican rebellion, think again; anyone who’d trust us in that role is a fool.
More to come; I’m just getting warmed up.
David Nick 03.24.05 at 5:42 pm
Go ahead and get warmed up Aaron, I won’t worry, I never suggested America as the supporting country because incase you haven’t been reading my blog, Bush will never support an uprising.
As for mentioning a revolt, for you to assume I inferred it as some non-chalant whimsy answer to a complicated problem is ridiculous and quite frankly inserts words into my mouth which is absolutely crazy.
So rather than revolt, or suggesting that the Mexicans need to change their government from within you advocate illegal immigration as the defacto solution to their problems?
How’s that for putting words into your mouth?
Your premise is nuts. Hurry up with your “wisdom” i’m all “ears”
Den of Darkness » On bei 03.24.05 at 5:53 pm
[...] ad written my Senator an email asking him to support this important piece of legislation. Click here to see the whole entry with comments… [...]
Aaron 03.24.05 at 6:01 pm
This is ridiculous. I’ve had more cogent arguments with chimpanzees; you can’t be bothered to answer any of my points with anything more debatable than ‘ridiculous’ and ‘crazy’ and ‘nuts’ and some delightful ad-hom, and you call yourself intelligent? You’re not worth my time, which I wish I’d realized before I’d posted that first response.
If it makes you happy to win, you win. You can assume whatever you want when I say ‘Fuck you guys; I’m going home.’ I shan’t further interrupt your circle-jerk.
David Nick 03.24.05 at 6:04 pm
Well I suppose if you wanted me to lower my debating skills I could resort to name calling?
David Nick 03.24.05 at 6:04 pm
Hi Maureen, I first want to thank you for responding. Secondly, before I get to my counter point I want to interject a little humor in here by saying “What’s wrong with sitting at home eating tacos with your feet up”? I love mexican food (tho the history of the taco can be debated later). :)
Now, Here is what my problem has been with illegals, illegal immigration, as it pertains to our border security, and the betterment of the latino race:
1) You made this point: in most cases, these people are fleeing abject poverty and starvation, rampant military oppression, guerilla warfare - have you ever been to mexico? they live in huts with no electricity and this is the 21st century!
I have seen how they live in Mexico, and I know it’s not any way I would want to live but ask yourself if that is my fault or the fault of my fellow countrymen and women? The answer is resoundingly NO. No because why haven’t the mexican citizens revolted for better living conditions than what they have? Better wages, better housing? Instead, they would rather violate our laws and security and if we oppose it we are called racists or vigilantes? (Not saying that’s what you are calling us).
2)You then said this: The terrorists of 9/11 were not illegal immigrants. And they do not get these things Carte Blanche - most of the illegals that I know have 2 or 3 jobs and work themselves to the bone. They get poor treatment and grossly substandard wages.
A Latino did not hijack a plane and fly it into a building, you are 100% correct, but what you fail to see is that the free flow of illegals across our borders has not solely been Mexican. They have also been Syrians, Pakistani, Iraqi, Lebonese, etc. That plus the fact that illegals are crossing over is alarming and a National Security epidemic. As for illegals not sucking up welfare here in the US is a blatant lie. The pregnant ones cross over specifically to have their babies here and their babies are given welfare, housing assistance, and many other benefits, it is why Arizona citizens passed Proposition 200 to ban illegals from gaining free access to welfare.
3) You Said: If you want to see pple milking the system then look at the americans who live off of welfare who are perfectly capable of working but choose not to and have handfuls of kids also living off of welfare. Let’s go even further with this… how do you fill all of your service industry jobs when the common american is well-educated and looking for white-collar jobs. Are you going to clean toilets? Hispanics are hard working enterprising people.
For an American to live off the welfare system is sad, but it is our right to do so because we live here legally. Not everyone on welfare bilks it for all it’s worth and simply needs it to crutch a particular hardship in life, that I see nothing wrong with at all. Those who rely upon welfare for their primary source of income without considering the chance to work for something better need to seek some therapy. And before welfare critics jump down my throat for that, I have at some point in my life relied upon welfare in dire circumstances. It was meant as a last resort to total poverty and destitution. Also, part 2 of your statement. Please don’t presume to know whether or not I object to cleaning toilets for money or taking a service job because you somehow assume to believe it’s beneath me. I clean toilets every other day at my house because some in my family are no longer capable of doing it themselves because of physical disabilities. I have worked in the food service industry for several years. I love to cook professionally and have no problems with it. I understand that I might be a minority in that arena. But please don’t stereotype me.
Last, I know what our immigration motto about “give me your tired, ….” It didn’t say give me your illegal immigrants who’ll objectly violate U.S. policy and laws, not too mention being security threats to continue their self serving nature. I am not anti-latino, I love the culture and mexico has had a long history/relationship with our country, but if you want to immigrate to this country do so legally, if you are fed up with your government, REVOLT! It’s obvious that the motto of Mexico is not “Change within” but “If you cannot change your government, hike the fence and move to America illegally”. Life in Mexico isn’t easy, between fighting drug lords, to corrupt government officials who are continuing to get richer off the backs of it’s citizens should be ruled an outlaw country and warrant a serious look at overthrowing that government. However, the people who live there should want it, and with the massive influx of illegals we are seeing here on a daily basis I just don’t see that happening.
It is not my fault the mexican government is crap. It is also not my responsibility to be burdened with an increase of unjust taxation for the support of welfare programs that go to illegals. That also includes the outrageous medical costs that I have to undertake because illegals are not refused treatment in our country.
Illegal immigration costs everyone, and that’s wrong. I do not have millions of dollars laying around to pay for this anymore than the illegal immigrant who took my job.
Aaron Brazell 03.24.05 at 6:07 pm
I allow David to guest blog here because he is thoughtful and articulate and I am all for varying views. It’s what makes America America. This is not a propaganda blog. It is an ideas blog and we meet in the arena of ideas. ;) David and I don’t always agree but is is dead on on this topic.
Besides, let’s not forget about Al Qaeda infiltrating U.S. Borders via Salvadoran gangs that are here illegally.
Aaron
Aaron Brazell 03.24.05 at 6:24 pm
Perhaps I see the world in black and white and not shades of grey. But there were two things that occurred in the American revolution.
1. The colonists didn’t run to another country because they didn’t like the living conditions under British rule. They took control of their own circumstances and decided to make a change.
2. The colonists had a nationalistic pride that caused them to invest in their own society to make a better society for their children. They did not simply leech off whoever could provide them the best feel-good remedy.
Aaron 03.24.05 at 6:32 pm
Y’know, I’m ashamed someone who shares my name would have the bad taste to let a guy like you guest on his blog, David.
‘I have seen how they live in Mexico, and I know it’s not any way I would want to live but ask yourself if that is my fault or the fault of my fellow countrymen and women? The answer is resoundingly NO. No because why haven’t the mexican citizens revolted for better living conditions than what they have?’
What are you, joking? You talk about a popular revolution like it’s something that everybody just decides to do all at once, and, hey, look! We just overthrew the government! Did you ever happen to notice that just about every popular revolution in history that hasn’t had the support of a third-party nation with a lot of guns has been put down as brutally and as bloodily as possible given the technology of the time? The only reason the American revolution succeeded, for a particularly handy example, was because we had the French — yes, gasp, I know, surrender monkeys and all that bullshit — because we had the French on our side.
‘No because why haven’t the mexican citizens revolted for better living conditions than what they have? Better wages, better housing?’ No. They’d have a lot of blood and pain and would end up with less than what they have now — unless, again, they have the backing of a powerful nation.
Speaking of that, if you’re thinking of suggesting America as that powerful nation backing the popular rebellion in Mexico, don’t. There are a few reasons why I say this, not least of which being Bush and Fox (Vincente, president of Mexico) appear to be on good terms.
The main reason I say ‘don’t suggest America’, though, is what happened to the Iraqi Kurds. Before the first Gulf War, we made real nice with the Kurds in northern Iraq, sayin’ “Oh, yeah, we know you want a piece of land to call your own, and that works out pretty good for us, so how ’bout when we’re on our way in, you guys start up, too? Make life even harder for Hussein! Don’t worry, we’ll be with you all the way!’
So of course when the Kurds did what we’d asked them to and rose up in the north we left them completely to their own devices, as a direct consequence of which they were slaughtered wholesale and driven all the way into Turkey, which had enough of a Kurdish problem and didn’t want any more, so some hundreds of thousands of Kurds wound up in refugee camps along the border between Iraq and Turkey.
So if you were thinking to suggest America as a backer for a popular Mexican rebellion, think again; anyone who’d trust us in that role is a fool.
More to come; I’m just getting warmed up.
David Nick 03.24.05 at 6:42 pm
Go ahead and get warmed up Aaron, I won’t worry, I never suggested America as the supporting country because incase you haven’t been reading my blog, Bush will never support an uprising.
As for mentioning a revolt, for you to assume I inferred it as some non-chalant whimsy answer to a complicated problem is ridiculous and quite frankly inserts words into my mouth which is absolutely crazy.
So rather than revolt, or suggesting that the Mexicans need to change their government from within you advocate illegal immigration as the defacto solution to their problems?
How’s that for putting words into your mouth?
Your premise is nuts. Hurry up with your “wisdom” i’m all “ears”
Aaron 03.24.05 at 7:01 pm
This is ridiculous. I’ve had more cogent arguments with chimpanzees; you can’t be bothered to answer any of my points with anything more debatable than ‘ridiculous’ and ‘crazy’ and ‘nuts’ and some delightful ad-hom, and you call yourself intelligent? You’re not worth my time, which I wish I’d realized before I’d posted that first response.
If it makes you happy to win, you win. You can assume whatever you want when I say ‘Fuck you guys; I’m going home.’ I shan’t further interrupt your circle-jerk.
David Nick 03.24.05 at 7:04 pm
Well I suppose if you wanted me to lower my debating skills I could resort to name calling?
Aaron Brazell 03.24.05 at 7:07 pm
I allow David to guest blog here because he is thoughtful and articulate and I am all for varying views. It’s what makes America America. This is not a propaganda blog. It is an ideas blog and we meet in the arena of ideas. ;) David and I don’t always agree but is is dead on on this topic.
Besides, let’s not forget about Al Qaeda infiltrating U.S. Borders via Salvadoran gangs that are here illegally.
Aaron
Aaron Brazell 03.24.05 at 7:24 pm
Perhaps I see the world in black and white and not shades of grey. But there were two things that occurred in the American revolution.
1. The colonists didn’t run to another country because they didn’t like the living conditions under British rule. They took control of their own circumstances and decided to make a change.
2. The colonists had a nationalistic pride that caused them to invest in their own society to make a better society for their children. They did not simply leech off whoever could provide them the best feel-good remedy.
Maureen 03.25.05 at 5:54 pm
Wow! I feel like I stirred up a hornet’s nest! And I will admit that when I posted my comment I was a bit hot under the collar and may not have thought out the issue completely.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with sitting at home with your feet up eating tacos, in fact I think I did it last nite!
Yes, you are right about terrorists crossing the border and I was being narrow-minded to only think you were referring to hispanics. To that end I must point out that many of the Central American countries have had minor revolts and have suffered greatly. Look at Nicaragua. Yes, it is not your fault that most hispanic countries (not just Mexico) are poor and horribly corrupt. And no, I’d rather not have America step in - they did not do my country, Panama, any service and actually have been quite harmful.
My question is - how does one get here legally? And to point out that Jose is not just skipping into Texas hand in hand with pregnant Maria and going directly to the welfare office. (yes, i admit there are hispanics on welfare - more than I’d care to admit). It isn’t easy to get into this country. Legally or otherwise. I’m very lucky to be an American. And as a tax paying American, honestly I’d rather my taxes go to being compasionate to immigrants than a three-day Inauguration Party for a president that’s already served 4 years. But then some may consider me a bleeding heart liberal. So be it…
And as for cleaning toilets, I’ll clean my own but I would rather not work in the service industry. I did not intend to imply that it was beneath you, but you must admit, most people with a college degree would rather not work in the service industry (myself included) unless I had to… yes, I admit it… I’m a snob. A tree-hugging liberal snob. Btw - have you ever hugged a tree? It’s kinda cool! ;)
And in closing, I must say, David, that I’m impressed! You are quite articulate and commanding. You know what you believe and you illustrate that quite effectively. Now go eat some tacos! :)
Maureen 03.25.05 at 6:54 pm
Wow! I feel like I stirred up a hornet’s nest! And I will admit that when I posted my comment I was a bit hot under the collar and may not have thought out the issue completely.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with sitting at home with your feet up eating tacos, in fact I think I did it last nite!
Yes, you are right about terrorists crossing the border and I was being narrow-minded to only think you were referring to hispanics. To that end I must point out that many of the Central American countries have had minor revolts and have suffered greatly. Look at Nicaragua. Yes, it is not your fault that most hispanic countries (not just Mexico) are poor and horribly corrupt. And no, I’d rather not have America step in - they did not do my country, Panama, any service and actually have been quite harmful.
My question is - how does one get here legally? And to point out that Jose is not just skipping into Texas hand in hand with pregnant Maria and going directly to the welfare office. (yes, i admit there are hispanics on welfare - more than I’d care to admit). It isn’t easy to get into this country. Legally or otherwise. I’m very lucky to be an American. And as a tax paying American, honestly I’d rather my taxes go to being compasionate to immigrants than a three-day Inauguration Party for a president that’s already served 4 years. But then some may consider me a bleeding heart liberal. So be it…
And as for cleaning toilets, I’ll clean my own but I would rather not work in the service industry. I did not intend to imply that it was beneath you, but you must admit, most people with a college degree would rather not work in the service industry (myself included) unless I had to… yes, I admit it… I’m a snob. A tree-hugging liberal snob. Btw - have you ever hugged a tree? It’s kinda cool! ;)
And in closing, I must say, David, that I’m impressed! You are quite articulate and commanding. You know what you believe and you illustrate that quite effectively. Now go eat some tacos! :)
Aaron Brazell 03.25.05 at 9:53 pm
The proper way to come to this country is to get a passport from the country you are a citizen of and get at minimum a work visa from the State Department (usually attainable from the U.S. Embassy in the person’s country).
Or come to school here and get an education visa.
Once here, you go through the long process of becoming a U.S. citizen, only if you want to.
Aaron Brazell 03.25.05 at 10:53 pm
The proper way to come to this country is to get a passport from the country you are a citizen of and get at minimum a work visa from the State Department (usually attainable from the U.S. Embassy in the person’s country).
Or come to school here and get an education visa.
Once here, you go through the long process of becoming a U.S. citizen, only if you want to.
Alan Aspuru-Guzik 03.28.05 at 10:29 pm
Well, I came here via the weblog competition, and found this discussion thread. Here is my opinion.
x) When Europe started free trade agreements with Eastern Europe and extended the economic community to their countries, they did CONSCIOUS EFFORT to improve the economic situation there. The Economist (a right wing magazine) criticized the US strongly because instead of helping México (members of NAFTA) catch up economically, it continued draining it’s economy with the World Bank and IMF predatory policies, and did not invest in it as a REAL trading partner to raise standards of living, and therefore eliminate the standard of living imbalance that leads to the inmigration that you seem to worried about. FYI, the size of the economy of México, as well as the number of citizens is comparable to the new 10 countries that are joining the EU (Poland, etc…). The growth of the Mexican economy is of future benefit for the US and Canada.
x) Reiterating my point: Since the crisis of the 80’s and the Tequila effect of 1994, both CREATED by economic conditions imposed by the World Bank (US puppet) policies, the Mexican economy became weaker. The governments of México, as puppets of the US aggravated the situation.
x) The revolution that you call for in Latin America is happening. Maybe you won’t like it, due to your right-leaning ideas, but happily, it is a LEFTIST revolution (Chavez in Venezuela, Lula in Brazil, Tavaré Vazquez in Uruguay, Andrés Manuel López Obrador in México when he wins in 2006, Evo Morales in Bolivia, when he wins in the next election, Kirchner in Argentina, and even Castro in Cuba (!!) [I am a social-democrat, so I don't like dictatorships, but I prefer Castro to Pinochet and other right-wing dictators which were SUPPORTED by the US in the "name" of fighting "communism"!]). This revolution seeks to have an independent Latin America, free of US intervention.
You might not like it, but the way to stop the inmigration is for Latin America to have the profits of their own natural resources: that means Chávez using OIL PROFITS for the poor, The Bolivians taxing Texaco and Chevron for extracting oil and gas in their countries and kicking out Enron and other water transnationals.
I am the son of a LEGAL inmigrant. My father is Mexican and was working here for Fairchild Electronics when I was born. Then we moved back to México. But other people, that are sons or daughters of inmigrants and are born on this land have the same rights as other Americans. Your proposal is ridiculous, as stated above, it entails punishing UNBORN people for whatever is the situation of their [MOSTLY ENTERPRENEURIAL AND HARD-WORKING] parents.
I thought that the right-wingers were for defending the rights of unborn people… “Oy vei, Oh my god, ¡Dios mÃo!”
Alan Aspuru-Guzik 03.28.05 at 11:29 pm
Well, I came here via the weblog competition, and found this discussion thread. Here is my opinion.
x) When Europe started free trade agreements with Eastern Europe and extended the economic community to their countries, they did CONSCIOUS EFFORT to improve the economic situation there. The Economist (a right wing magazine) criticized the US strongly because instead of helping México (members of NAFTA) catch up economically, it continued draining it’s economy with the World Bank and IMF predatory policies, and did not invest in it as a REAL trading partner to raise standards of living, and therefore eliminate the standard of living imbalance that leads to the inmigration that you seem to worried about. FYI, the size of the economy of México, as well as the number of citizens is comparable to the new 10 countries that are joining the EU (Poland, etc…). The growth of the Mexican economy is of future benefit for the US and Canada.
x) Reiterating my point: Since the crisis of the 80’s and the Tequila effect of 1994, both CREATED by economic conditions imposed by the World Bank (US puppet) policies, the Mexican economy became weaker. The governments of México, as puppets of the US aggravated the situation.
x) The revolution that you call for in Latin America is happening. Maybe you won’t like it, due to your right-leaning ideas, but happily, it is a LEFTIST revolution (Chavez in Venezuela, Lula in Brazil, Tavaré Vazquez in Uruguay, Andrés Manuel López Obrador in México when he wins in 2006, Evo Morales in Bolivia, when he wins in the next election, Kirchner in Argentina, and even Castro in Cuba (!!) [I am a social-democrat, so I don't like dictatorships, but I prefer Castro to Pinochet and other right-wing dictators which were SUPPORTED by the US in the "name" of fighting "communism"!]). This revolution seeks to have an independent Latin America, free of US intervention.
You might not like it, but the way to stop the inmigration is for Latin America to have the profits of their own natural resources: that means Chávez using OIL PROFITS for the poor, The Bolivians taxing Texaco and Chevron for extracting oil and gas in their countries and kicking out Enron and other water transnationals.
I am the son of a LEGAL inmigrant. My father is Mexican and was working here for Fairchild Electronics when I was born. Then we moved back to México. But other people, that are sons or daughters of inmigrants and are born on this land have the same rights as other Americans. Your proposal is ridiculous, as stated above, it entails punishing UNBORN people for whatever is the situation of their [MOSTLY ENTERPRENEURIAL AND HARD-WORKING] parents.
I thought that the right-wingers were for defending the rights of unborn people… “Oy vei, Oh my god, ¡Dios mÃo!”
Comments on this entry are closed.