I had an interview today with a company in Silver Spring. It was a good experience and the folks there seem decent enough. An interesting topic came up during the interview and one that I’ve never been faced with. Though I expect non-disclosures and the spirit of non-competes, I had never been required to sign a non-compete agreement. And I’ve never competed with my employer.
However, if offered this position, I would be required to sign a non-compete to begin. My problem with this is that the non-compete would require me to stop freelancing of any sort. I don’t do nearly the amount of freelance work I used to do, but when work comes along I generally accept it. I like the freedom of doing so.
At what point do you accept the demands of a potential employer and put aside a freedom that you’ve had for the past five years? At what point do you hang up a key means of making cash when cash is needed? Are non-competes fair in all cases? And if not all cases, what leverage do you use to negotiate the hairy legal mess?
I’m genuinely curious. Feel free to comment and let me know your thoughts.
{ 28 comments }
Stacie 02.14.06 at 10:11 am
I had to sign a contract with a government contractor (long time ago) for a non compete agreement. I could continue to freelance, but I couldn’t bid on the same contracts nor use the information I gained at that job to help me with a client. Depending on the size of this company, type of client, and where their clientele is located, there may be several work arounds.
Stacie 02.14.06 at 10:11 am
I had to sign a contract with a government contractor (long time ago) for a non compete agreement. I could continue to freelance, but I couldn’t bid on the same contracts nor use the information I gained at that job to help me with a client. Depending on the size of this company, type of client, and where their clientele is located, there may be several work arounds.
Stacie 02.14.06 at 10:11 am
I had to sign a contract with a government contractor (long time ago) for a non compete agreement. I could continue to freelance, but I couldn’t bid on the same contracts nor use the information I gained at that job to help me with a client. Depending on the size of this company, type of client, and where their clientele is located, there may be several work arounds.
Stacie 02.14.06 at 10:11 am
I had to sign a contract with a government contractor (long time ago) for a non compete agreement. I could continue to freelance, but I couldn’t bid on the same contracts nor use the information I gained at that job to help me with a client. Depending on the size of this company, type of client, and where their clientele is located, there may be several work arounds.
Vinnie Garcia 02.14.06 at 10:27 am
I won’t sign a noncompete that’s too restrictive. For example, a friend of mine signed one stating that any programming work he did was owned by his company. Yes, even stuff done outside of work on his own time and equipment. That’s just something I won’t do.
There are also the type that say “no doing x for 2 years”. I may sign one of those depending on the content. If it’s “you can’t do web design in (insert metro area here) for 2 years after you leave our company” I won’t sign it. If it’s more specific, like “you can’t do web design for our customers or suppliers in (insert metro area) for 2 years” then I’ll sign, because I can easily find work that doesn’t interfere.
It’s really a matter of what you’re comfortable with. My friend didn’t have a problem signing his noncompete and he’s compensated well for it, but it’s not something I would have done.
Vinnie Garcia 02.14.06 at 10:27 am
I won’t sign a noncompete that’s too restrictive. For example, a friend of mine signed one stating that any programming work he did was owned by his company. Yes, even stuff done outside of work on his own time and equipment. That’s just something I won’t do.
There are also the type that say “no doing x for 2 years”. I may sign one of those depending on the content. If it’s “you can’t do web design in (insert metro area here) for 2 years after you leave our company” I won’t sign it. If it’s more specific, like “you can’t do web design for our customers or suppliers in (insert metro area) for 2 years” then I’ll sign, because I can easily find work that doesn’t interfere.
It’s really a matter of what you’re comfortable with. My friend didn’t have a problem signing his noncompete and he’s compensated well for it, but it’s not something I would have done.
Vinnie Garcia 02.14.06 at 10:27 am
I won’t sign a noncompete that’s too restrictive. For example, a friend of mine signed one stating that any programming work he did was owned by his company. Yes, even stuff done outside of work on his own time and equipment. That’s just something I won’t do.
There are also the type that say “no doing x for 2 years”. I may sign one of those depending on the content. If it’s “you can’t do web design in (insert metro area here) for 2 years after you leave our company” I won’t sign it. If it’s more specific, like “you can’t do web design for our customers or suppliers in (insert metro area) for 2 years” then I’ll sign, because I can easily find work that doesn’t interfere.
It’s really a matter of what you’re comfortable with. My friend didn’t have a problem signing his noncompete and he’s compensated well for it, but it’s not something I would have done.
Vinnie Garcia 02.14.06 at 10:27 am
I won’t sign a noncompete that’s too restrictive. For example, a friend of mine signed one stating that any programming work he did was owned by his company. Yes, even stuff done outside of work on his own time and equipment. That’s just something I won’t do.
There are also the type that say “no doing x for 2 years”. I may sign one of those depending on the content. If it’s “you can’t do web design in (insert metro area here) for 2 years after you leave our company” I won’t sign it. If it’s more specific, like “you can’t do web design for our customers or suppliers in (insert metro area) for 2 years” then I’ll sign, because I can easily find work that doesn’t interfere.
It’s really a matter of what you’re comfortable with. My friend didn’t have a problem signing his noncompete and he’s compensated well for it, but it’s not something I would have done.
Aaron 02.14.06 at 12:54 pm
For what it’s worth, non-competes that say you can’t do such and such for x number of years after leaving the company can be overturned by a court if it is seen that the non-compete will prevent someone making a living.
See the case where EA Games thumbed their nose at Ubisoft for such an agreement.
Aaron 02.14.06 at 12:54 pm
For what it’s worth, non-competes that say you can’t do such and such for x number of years after leaving the company can be overturned by a court if it is seen that the non-compete will prevent someone making a living.
See the case where EA Games thumbed their nose at Ubisoft for such an agreement.
Aaron Brazell 02.14.06 at 12:54 pm
For what it’s worth, non-competes that say you can’t do such and such for x number of years after leaving the company can be overturned by a court if it is seen that the non-compete will prevent someone making a living.
See the case where EA Games thumbed their nose at Ubisoft for such an agreement.
Aaron 02.14.06 at 12:54 pm
For what it’s worth, non-competes that say you can’t do such and such for x number of years after leaving the company can be overturned by a court if it is seen that the non-compete will prevent someone making a living.
See the case where EA Games thumbed their nose at Ubisoft for such an agreement.
bill h 02.15.06 at 6:01 pm
just because they ask doesn’t mean you must. sounds like a negotiation point to me. nda’s i can understand. but non-compete’s only make sense if there is proprietary info or spec training you would recieve and you could take and use against them. bottom line, re-write it and any contract to suit yourself. they’ll respect you more for it, and you won’t start off on the foot of being a sheep they know they can control. and if they don’t respect yu for it, you don’t want to work for them…do you? otherwise, by now, i think you should have an idea of what you are capable of, what you are worth, and what makes sense…to you. bottom line, if you don’t wanna and you don’t have to… don’t. their company culture of fear and control does not have to be yours. at the end of the day…who needs who more? that’s the game. do you need them? is it worth feeling manipulated or controlled or limited to what they deign to allow you to earn? with all due respect…are you freaking kidding me???? unless they are offering you 150k with stock options, my opinion, it may be passed time to start your own company mate.
bill h 02.15.06 at 6:01 pm
just because they ask doesn’t mean you must. sounds like a negotiation point to me. nda’s i can understand. but non-compete’s only make sense if there is proprietary info or spec training you would recieve and you could take and use against them. bottom line, re-write it and any contract to suit yourself. they’ll respect you more for it, and you won’t start off on the foot of being a sheep they know they can control. and if they don’t respect yu for it, you don’t want to work for them…do you? otherwise, by now, i think you should have an idea of what you are capable of, what you are worth, and what makes sense…to you. bottom line, if you don’t wanna and you don’t have to… don’t. their company culture of fear and control does not have to be yours. at the end of the day…who needs who more? that’s the game. do you need them? is it worth feeling manipulated or controlled or limited to what they deign to allow you to earn? with all due respect…are you freaking kidding me???? unless they are offering you 150k with stock options, my opinion, it may be passed time to start your own company mate.
bill h 02.15.06 at 6:01 pm
just because they ask doesn’t mean you must. sounds like a negotiation point to me. nda’s i can understand. but non-compete’s only make sense if there is proprietary info or spec training you would recieve and you could take and use against them. bottom line, re-write it and any contract to suit yourself. they’ll respect you more for it, and you won’t start off on the foot of being a sheep they know they can control. and if they don’t respect yu for it, you don’t want to work for them…do you? otherwise, by now, i think you should have an idea of what you are capable of, what you are worth, and what makes sense…to you. bottom line, if you don’t wanna and you don’t have to… don’t. their company culture of fear and control does not have to be yours. at the end of the day…who needs who more? that’s the game. do you need them? is it worth feeling manipulated or controlled or limited to what they deign to allow you to earn? with all due respect…are you freaking kidding me???? unless they are offering you 150k with stock options, my opinion, it may be passed time to start your own company mate.
bill h 02.15.06 at 6:01 pm
just because they ask doesn’t mean you must. sounds like a negotiation point to me. nda’s i can understand. but non-compete’s only make sense if there is proprietary info or spec training you would recieve and you could take and use against them. bottom line, re-write it and any contract to suit yourself. they’ll respect you more for it, and you won’t start off on the foot of being a sheep they know they can control. and if they don’t respect yu for it, you don’t want to work for them…do you? otherwise, by now, i think you should have an idea of what you are capable of, what you are worth, and what makes sense…to you. bottom line, if you don’t wanna and you don’t have to… don’t. their company culture of fear and control does not have to be yours. at the end of the day…who needs who more? that’s the game. do you need them? is it worth feeling manipulated or controlled or limited to what they deign to allow you to earn? with all due respect…are you freaking kidding me???? unless they are offering you 150k with stock options, my opinion, it may be passed time to start your own company mate.
Aaron Brazell 02.15.06 at 9:39 pm
I’d love to start my own company, Bill. So far, though, everything I’ve set my own hand to in this life has been less than rewarding financialy and I don’t have the nest egg to risk. It would be a stretch.
What I need is a partner with money. Financier. That would make it easier. I don’t have the resources to go it alone though.
Aaron 02.15.06 at 9:39 pm
I’d love to start my own company, Bill. So far, though, everything I’ve set my own hand to in this life has been less than rewarding financialy and I don’t have the nest egg to risk. It would be a stretch.
What I need is a partner with money. Financier. That would make it easier. I don’t have the resources to go it alone though.
Aaron 02.15.06 at 9:39 pm
I’d love to start my own company, Bill. So far, though, everything I’ve set my own hand to in this life has been less than rewarding financialy and I don’t have the nest egg to risk. It would be a stretch.
What I need is a partner with money. Financier. That would make it easier. I don’t have the resources to go it alone though.
Aaron 02.15.06 at 9:39 pm
I’d love to start my own company, Bill. So far, though, everything I’ve set my own hand to in this life has been less than rewarding financialy and I don’t have the nest egg to risk. It would be a stretch.
What I need is a partner with money. Financier. That would make it easier. I don’t have the resources to go it alone though.
bill h 02.19.06 at 5:44 pm
i know it is easy for me to give advice. it is always easy to look at someone else and give your two cents or nickel’s worth…
that being said…what i seem to be hearing is…
i tried and failed to become a financial success and i’m unwilling to use what i learned from my previous attempts and risk my own effort, time, energy (money) to try again.
ok. nothing wrong with other people’s money except that they generally want to see a track record of success and some guarantee on return before risking their time, effort, energy (money). you may find someone to back you or go into business with you because they like you and think you are cool and smart. it happens every day. so, it’s kind of a catch-22 in that respect. in any case, my own experience has soured me on partners. cute, huh? so, i dunno. i don’t really know you, it’s just my stock pat answer that everyone should at least have some kind of side business going for a number of reasons. from the changing economy and corporate culture (read unreliable) the days of working for a pension and benefits are quickly going bye-bye. and…it kinda goes hand in hand with that independent, self reliant, responsible for my own destiny thing i’ve been on about. anyway, thanks for responding directly to my remark…but…
my harsh reply is…boo hoo. sorry to hear about your failures. what a great excuse to give up. maybe you should have stuck with the navy…
my challenge is money for what? do you not already freelance design work? did i not read something to that effect? what, you wanna big office and to hire a receptionist on day one? whatever, dude. where there’s a will there’s a way. if you want to. me, i’ve just stepped back into the ranks of employees of a large corporation and am damn glad of it for the moment. for now. i’ve gone back and forth a number of times and learn more each time. from failure. what does one learn from success anyway? you can believe you did it all right, but only by screwing up and seeing the how and why of the mistake(s) can you be certain of anything. anyway, some people are happy doing a job and doing it well. knowing where the lines are and what’s expected of them. and some people can’t afford to risk a regular paycheck when they have responsibilities…like supporting a family, a mortgage, etc. not everyone starts their own business to get rich either. simply put they just can’t stand not driving the car, reading the map, making the plan, being in control or feeling like they are in control of their own destiny. or maybe just not at the mercy of someone who can’t remember what to do after they breathe in…anyway, i’m still using other people’s internet access for a couple more weeks. so…i look forward to reading your book and starting my own blog someday. i just can’t find the time, and i don’t have a dsl line anymore, and i can’t find a free wifi spot and i cant cant cant…..
bill h 02.19.06 at 5:44 pm
i know it is easy for me to give advice. it is always easy to look at someone else and give your two cents or nickel’s worth…
that being said…what i seem to be hearing is…
i tried and failed to become a financial success and i’m unwilling to use what i learned from my previous attempts and risk my own effort, time, energy (money) to try again.
ok. nothing wrong with other people’s money except that they generally want to see a track record of success and some guarantee on return before risking their time, effort, energy (money). you may find someone to back you or go into business with you because they like you and think you are cool and smart. it happens every day. so, it’s kind of a catch-22 in that respect. in any case, my own experience has soured me on partners. cute, huh? so, i dunno. i don’t really know you, it’s just my stock pat answer that everyone should at least have some kind of side business going for a number of reasons. from the changing economy and corporate culture (read unreliable) the days of working for a pension and benefits are quickly going bye-bye. and…it kinda goes hand in hand with that independent, self reliant, responsible for my own destiny thing i’ve been on about. anyway, thanks for responding directly to my remark…but…
my harsh reply is…boo hoo. sorry to hear about your failures. what a great excuse to give up. maybe you should have stuck with the navy…
my challenge is money for what? do you not already freelance design work? did i not read something to that effect? what, you wanna big office and to hire a receptionist on day one? whatever, dude. where there’s a will there’s a way. if you want to. me, i’ve just stepped back into the ranks of employees of a large corporation and am damn glad of it for the moment. for now. i’ve gone back and forth a number of times and learn more each time. from failure. what does one learn from success anyway? you can believe you did it all right, but only by screwing up and seeing the how and why of the mistake(s) can you be certain of anything. anyway, some people are happy doing a job and doing it well. knowing where the lines are and what’s expected of them. and some people can’t afford to risk a regular paycheck when they have responsibilities…like supporting a family, a mortgage, etc. not everyone starts their own business to get rich either. simply put they just can’t stand not driving the car, reading the map, making the plan, being in control or feeling like they are in control of their own destiny. or maybe just not at the mercy of someone who can’t remember what to do after they breathe in…anyway, i’m still using other people’s internet access for a couple more weeks. so…i look forward to reading your book and starting my own blog someday. i just can’t find the time, and i don’t have a dsl line anymore, and i can’t find a free wifi spot and i cant cant cant…..
bill h 02.19.06 at 5:44 pm
i know it is easy for me to give advice. it is always easy to look at someone else and give your two cents or nickel’s worth…
that being said…what i seem to be hearing is…
i tried and failed to become a financial success and i’m unwilling to use what i learned from my previous attempts and risk my own effort, time, energy (money) to try again.
ok. nothing wrong with other people’s money except that they generally want to see a track record of success and some guarantee on return before risking their time, effort, energy (money). you may find someone to back you or go into business with you because they like you and think you are cool and smart. it happens every day. so, it’s kind of a catch-22 in that respect. in any case, my own experience has soured me on partners. cute, huh? so, i dunno. i don’t really know you, it’s just my stock pat answer that everyone should at least have some kind of side business going for a number of reasons. from the changing economy and corporate culture (read unreliable) the days of working for a pension and benefits are quickly going bye-bye. and…it kinda goes hand in hand with that independent, self reliant, responsible for my own destiny thing i’ve been on about. anyway, thanks for responding directly to my remark…but…
my harsh reply is…boo hoo. sorry to hear about your failures. what a great excuse to give up. maybe you should have stuck with the navy…
my challenge is money for what? do you not already freelance design work? did i not read something to that effect? what, you wanna big office and to hire a receptionist on day one? whatever, dude. where there’s a will there’s a way. if you want to. me, i’ve just stepped back into the ranks of employees of a large corporation and am damn glad of it for the moment. for now. i’ve gone back and forth a number of times and learn more each time. from failure. what does one learn from success anyway? you can believe you did it all right, but only by screwing up and seeing the how and why of the mistake(s) can you be certain of anything. anyway, some people are happy doing a job and doing it well. knowing where the lines are and what’s expected of them. and some people can’t afford to risk a regular paycheck when they have responsibilities…like supporting a family, a mortgage, etc. not everyone starts their own business to get rich either. simply put they just can’t stand not driving the car, reading the map, making the plan, being in control or feeling like they are in control of their own destiny. or maybe just not at the mercy of someone who can’t remember what to do after they breathe in…anyway, i’m still using other people’s internet access for a couple more weeks. so…i look forward to reading your book and starting my own blog someday. i just can’t find the time, and i don’t have a dsl line anymore, and i can’t find a free wifi spot and i cant cant cant…..
bill h 02.19.06 at 5:44 pm
i know it is easy for me to give advice. it is always easy to look at someone else and give your two cents or nickel’s worth…
that being said…what i seem to be hearing is…
i tried and failed to become a financial success and i’m unwilling to use what i learned from my previous attempts and risk my own effort, time, energy (money) to try again.
ok. nothing wrong with other people’s money except that they generally want to see a track record of success and some guarantee on return before risking their time, effort, energy (money). you may find someone to back you or go into business with you because they like you and think you are cool and smart. it happens every day. so, it’s kind of a catch-22 in that respect. in any case, my own experience has soured me on partners. cute, huh? so, i dunno. i don’t really know you, it’s just my stock pat answer that everyone should at least have some kind of side business going for a number of reasons. from the changing economy and corporate culture (read unreliable) the days of working for a pension and benefits are quickly going bye-bye. and…it kinda goes hand in hand with that independent, self reliant, responsible for my own destiny thing i’ve been on about. anyway, thanks for responding directly to my remark…but…
my harsh reply is…boo hoo. sorry to hear about your failures. what a great excuse to give up. maybe you should have stuck with the navy…
my challenge is money for what? do you not already freelance design work? did i not read something to that effect? what, you wanna big office and to hire a receptionist on day one? whatever, dude. where there’s a will there’s a way. if you want to. me, i’ve just stepped back into the ranks of employees of a large corporation and am damn glad of it for the moment. for now. i’ve gone back and forth a number of times and learn more each time. from failure. what does one learn from success anyway? you can believe you did it all right, but only by screwing up and seeing the how and why of the mistake(s) can you be certain of anything. anyway, some people are happy doing a job and doing it well. knowing where the lines are and what’s expected of them. and some people can’t afford to risk a regular paycheck when they have responsibilities…like supporting a family, a mortgage, etc. not everyone starts their own business to get rich either. simply put they just can’t stand not driving the car, reading the map, making the plan, being in control or feeling like they are in control of their own destiny. or maybe just not at the mercy of someone who can’t remember what to do after they breathe in…anyway, i’m still using other people’s internet access for a couple more weeks. so…i look forward to reading your book and starting my own blog someday. i just can’t find the time, and i don’t have a dsl line anymore, and i can’t find a free wifi spot and i cant cant cant…..
Aaron 02.19.06 at 10:28 pm
Bill–
There’s so much in your comment that I don’t really know what to address and what is rhetorical.
To answer the obvious questions, yeah I do freelance design work but unless you’re going to refer clients to me my client well has dried up and I don’t sell well. Another job for a partner.
my harsh reply is…boo hoo. sorry to hear about your failures. what a great excuse to give up. maybe you should have stuck with the navy…
To this I say fuck you. ;-) Sorry but I don’t really need a harsh reply. I already do 4 jobs, only two of which are paid. The other one is my blogging which I make next to nothing on and the other is b5media who I lend my services to based on my friendships there since they are not in a position to pay me right now. Up until recently had turned into a major pro bono project.
Aaron Brazell 02.19.06 at 10:28 pm
Bill–
There’s so much in your comment that I don’t really know what to address and what is rhetorical.
To answer the obvious questions, yeah I do freelance design work but unless you’re going to refer clients to me my client well has dried up and I don’t sell well. Another job for a partner.
my harsh reply is…boo hoo. sorry to hear about your failures. what a great excuse to give up. maybe you should have stuck with the navy…
To this I say fuck you. ;-) Sorry but I don’t really need a harsh reply. I already do 4 jobs, only two of which are paid. The other one is my blogging which I make next to nothing on and the other is b5media who I lend my services to based on my friendships there since they are not in a position to pay me right now. Up until recently had turned into a major pro bono project.
Aaron 02.19.06 at 10:28 pm
Bill–
There’s so much in your comment that I don’t really know what to address and what is rhetorical.
To answer the obvious questions, yeah I do freelance design work but unless you’re going to refer clients to me my client well has dried up and I don’t sell well. Another job for a partner.
my harsh reply is…boo hoo. sorry to hear about your failures. what a great excuse to give up. maybe you should have stuck with the navy…
To this I say fuck you. ;-) Sorry but I don’t really need a harsh reply. I already do 4 jobs, only two of which are paid. The other one is my blogging which I make next to nothing on and the other is b5media who I lend my services to based on my friendships there since they are not in a position to pay me right now. Up until recently had turned into a major pro bono project.
Aaron 02.19.06 at 10:28 pm
Bill–
There’s so much in your comment that I don’t really know what to address and what is rhetorical.
To answer the obvious questions, yeah I do freelance design work but unless you’re going to refer clients to me my client well has dried up and I don’t sell well. Another job for a partner.
my harsh reply is…boo hoo. sorry to hear about your failures. what a great excuse to give up. maybe you should have stuck with the navy…
To this I say fuck you. ;-) Sorry but I don’t really need a harsh reply. I already do 4 jobs, only two of which are paid. The other one is my blogging which I make next to nothing on and the other is b5media who I lend my services to based on my friendships there since they are not in a position to pay me right now. Up until recently had turned into a major pro bono project.
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